37 comments

I have never once in my life written a review for anything i've done, read, or taken part in. I usually find myself just sharing to others what i have experienced in person. I don't wish to take much time as i'm about to sit down and don't want to be typing forever.

I'm a successful person living an abundant life in many many ways that is knowledgable about the human mind, spirituality, mediation, sexuality, music, yoga, health through eating and exercise, etc...

I have never experienced such powerful change from anything i have ever done before. I used to go to music festivals and find a sense of community and growth there that i found unique and exhilarating in ways that brought me back time and time again. I found my self slowly swaying to one's over time that were less drug oriented and more spiritually based due to my attraction of the community workshops that would happen where i could find a sense of growth together with others.

I found that in the cleanest, most nuetral, powerful manner at Satvatove. It changed my life and continues to every day I use the tools I learned since the last course day.

I could type forever about the things within me that have shifted ever since reuturing from my first Satvatove course and i'd just like to point out that i did not notice or get any cult hare krishna feelings while attending the seminar. Just because hindu quotes are spoken of at some moments and the word Sattva stems from that part of the world does not mean any of that is pushed on anyone. It's all perception I guess, but I just attended what was the biggest foundational course they ever had and everyone there was in deep bliss and peace from the things they came to realize. I've never felt that close and comfortable with other's, something I didn't know i had been looking for for a long time. It's not about the course, it's about you and your growth, truly.

I deeply recommend looking into your heart and seeing if it's for you.

:)

Love and Peace

Namaste

Reviewer is in happy mood. Please contact the author of this review to discuss good customer service of salvatore institute program. Satvatove Institute needs to read this review and look into the issue (if any) according to poster's claims.

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Anonymous
#1556875

When reading the positive reviews of Satvatove, it is helpful to keep in mind Aristotle's concepts of dialectic and rhetoric. Rhetoric is designed to evoke an emotional response in word-thinkers through emotionally-tagged associations.

Rhetoric often strikes those outside its emotional impact range as stupid. In the case of adversarial Satvatovian rhetoric, the objective is to cause sufficient emotional pain (i.e. shame) to the other party (critics) to force them to withdraw from the conflict. Dialectic is based on the construction of syllogisms, so it’s very obvious when one is lying.

Hence the importance of knowing your audience. When you speak in rhetoric to a dialectical, it sounds very dishonest even when it is good rhetoric in line with the truth. But you can’t speak dialectic to a rhetorical for the obvious reason that they cannot be persuaded by it. They simply don’t have the capacity.

I strongly prefer dialectic, but that is reserved for those who are intellectually honest and capable of changing their minds on the basis of information. For example, this was written for dialecticals. Rhetoricals only see "blah blah blah, I'm so smart, blah blah blah". The interesting thing about rhetoric is that it makes no sense to those who are limited to the dialectic.

Meet dialectic with dialectic. Meet rhetoric with rhetoric.

Meet pseudo-dialectic with dialectic to expose the rhetoric, then follow it up with rhetoric. Those who tend to favor dialectic very much need to understand that the emotional impact of dialectic in response to rhetoric is every bit as ineffective as the logical impact of rhetoric is in response to dialectic.

Anonymous
#1556848

Satvatove’s expectations in sectors of your life, i.e. expectations instead of appreciation of who you are, can create a feeling of disconnect and yes, there you go, self-doubt.

Recognizing this is important, so you can take the Satvatove hook out of your back, it doesn’t belong to you. Take your power back.

You deserve to feel whatever you think, feel, and want. We’re talking about validating and embracing who you are.

Anonymous
#1556829

What similarities are there between the Lifespring and EST trainings and the Satvatove seminars?

Anonymous
to SatvatoveIsKafkaesque #1556836

I find it hard to describe what happened in the Satvatove seminar, because so much of it was visual, nonverbal and emotional. Also, these experiences had a cumulative effect.

Often something wouldn't have bothered me if it were done without secrecy, misrepresentation and coercion.

But, the processes were combined with intense emotional encounters, for many hours straight. We were overloaded with information over extended periods of time, and subjected to a controlled environment and restrictive rules that changed seemingly at the facilitators' whim.

Anonymous
to SatvatoveIsKafkaesque #1556842

I had been involved in experiential activities in the past where I had been lied to or put in uncomfortable situations and then within the hour, had been told the truth and given an opportunity question my experience and sort it out in terms of what I had learned. I thought perhaps these situations I had been confronted with in the Satvatove seminar would all make sense at some future point.

I hoped that I would eventually see the relevance and appropriateness of the facilitators' actions and that these insights would help to compensate for my mounting concerns during the seminar. I realized at a certain point that the seminar had already departed considerably from what I had expected, but decided to make the most of it. I was behaving in a manner that was unusual for me by this time in the Satvatove seminar. I didn't notice it until much later.

Let me explain. Instead of questioning the appropriateness of David's behavior, certain seminar participants, myself included, at times behaved like children afraid of offending an unpredictable parent.

Anonymous
#1556774

Satvatove counts on the conscientiousness of their victims. They prey on those with a sound conscience.

They know, for example, that folks with a big conscience are sensitive to guilt and shame. So, if they can make you feel guilty or ashamed, they’ll hold sway.

Anonymous
to Rajastove #1556851

For some time, I believed in and trusted Satvatove more than I believed in and trusted myself. Try for awhile putting yourself first until you trust yourself more and alter that pattern. Don’t leave yourself behind.

Anonymous
#1536049

I can relate to the following quote from the article "Large Group Awareness Trainings", published in 1982, in the Annual Review Of Psychology. The quote is about est, but it is eerily similar to what I witnessed and experienced in Satvatove: "Glass and associates (1977) and Kirsch & Glass (1977), in reports of est casualties (described above), suggest that 'identification with the aggressor' is a central dynamic in all est outcomes.

They argue that est trainees exposed to a regimen of deprivation and an attacking charismatic leader attempt to master the situation by unconsciously identifying with, or merging with, the trainer." In his 2017 thesis, John Hunter contextualizes the article as follows: "While the less overt negative effects of LGATs must be analysed, most of the claims, and the limited research which exists, address overt psychological harm from participation.

Finkelstein, et al. (1982) consolidated the research on those harmed in LGATs up until the early 1980s in a section of their article entitled Psychiatric Casualties Among est Trainees."

Anonymous
#1528186

Recovery from Satvatove can take a while.

Anonymous
to Satvatology #1556777

It's not easy to see the inherent aggression in the tactics that Satvatove manipulators typically use. So victims often experience what has come to be known as the "gaslighting" effect.

Dealing with a skilled Satvatove manipulator can make you feel crazy. You know in your heart there's something not right about them. But their artful use of tactics has you thinking you have the problem.

Manipulation (i.e. covert-aggression) is truly crazy-making behavior.

Anonymous
#1527354

Opinions about Satvatove are polarized, with some people experiencing a "conversion" or becoming promoters of the Satvatove system, while others may decry the same program as destabilizing, dangerous, or detrimental. Those who do become converts or proponents of Satvatove, often seem to pay a significant cost in unpaid labor they perform for the Satvatove corporation.

This cost is usually not accounted for when deciding whether or not to enroll.

One might also question whether such converts have been distracted from lifelong goals that they may have focused on instead. While similar questions may be raised with respect to extreme religious conversion, the lack of labeling for the "secular" Satvatove conversion process is especially problematic.

Anonymous
#1526966

Just 'cause they put "satva" in the name don't make it sattvic. Just like there's nothing scientific about Scientology.

Anonymous
to Anonymous #1532457

There is an initial high (some) people feel. The people you meet seem to be your new friends, but the high wears off.

The Satvatove experience is not enough common ground to have a lasting friendship or lasting success. It can be a real let down.

Some people continue to work it by staffing and volunteering. Some of those people are very strange and you can't talk to them because all you get back are Satvatove cliche's.

Anonymous
to Anonymous #1546015

Based on my experience of the Satvatove Advanced seminar, and based on my experience of David and Marie after the seminar, I would never again participate in anything that was connected in any way with the LGAT tradition. That said, I found Chris Mathe’s article “Can an LGAT Change?” to be very interesting.

Even moving. I would not participate in the program that he is associated with, nor would I endorse it, nor would I endorse him. I dislike much of what he describes, and upon finishing the article, I am left with a bitter taste in my mouth. A good deal of the processes that he describes, I do not believe I would find healing, or helpful to me in my life.

Even simply reading it brings back a rush of unpleasant memories of Satvatove. Nonetheless, his article demonstrates in detail, and with genuine sensitivity and thoughtfulness, what a relatively more “sattvic” LGAT might look like.

Anonymous
to Anonymous #1546195

https://web.archive.org/web/20090109225629/http://pagesperso-orange.fr:80/eldon.braun/awareness/NLI.htm

Anonymous
#1526914

Satvatove definitely tries to transform your thinking. They call it "empowerment," but I have never seen a more extreme example of "sheeple" in my life.

Anonymous
to Anonymous #1547834

A careful consideration of the pro-Satvatove reviews on this website can be deeply enriched by an awareness of the concept of "thought-terminating clichés". Here is what Wikipedia has to say about it: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Thought-terminating clichés, also known as thought-stoppers, or semantic stopsigns are words or phrases that discourage critical thought and meaningful discussion about a given topic.

They are typically short, generic truisms that offer seemingly simple answers to complex questions or that distract attention away from other lines of thought. (...) "The term was popularized by psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton in his 1961 book, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of 'Brainwashing' in China. Lifton wrote, 'The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.

These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis'.

Sometimes they are used in a deliberate attempt to shut down debate, manipulate others to think a certain way, or dismiss dissent. However, some people repeat them, even to themselves, out of habit or conditioning, or as a defense mechanism to reaffirm a confirmation bias."

Anonymous
#1523872

The "glowing" testimonials posted on this website by Satvatove graduates are nearly identical to testimonials made by graduates of est/The Forum and Lifespring. But the similarities don't end there.

Like to those two organizations, Satvatove has an anti-intellectual emphasis and a controlled, regimented environment. Satvatove uses Lifespring processes such as the Red/Black game and Lifeboat. Manipulative methods are used in Satvatove, which exceed the bounds of ethical instruction. High pressure tactics break down Satvatove participants.

And as a result of these tactics, the same kinds of negative experiences by graduates of est/The Forum and Lifespring appear to be present in Satvatove.

To protect itself from the predictable fallout caused by this, Satvatove requires each prospective trainee to sign a "hold-harmless" contract absolving Satvatove of legal responsibility for damages and stating that the trainee will never reveal the contents of the training to any non-graduate. This contract is virtually identical to the contracts used in Lifespring, The Forum, and other similar groups.

Anonymous
#1492533

The Satvatove doctrine of "be-do-have", which the organization borrows from older group awareness trainings, is rather difficult for many participants to recall and satisfactorily understand.Satvatove participants and leaders that I communicated with about it couldn't actually explain these ideas or follow them to a conclusion, they just appeared to mouth the phrases.I actually had to go to the anti-cult literature to find a clear explanation of the doctrine. In theory, the idea is that you start with what you are, develop skills, and you will naturally acquire the symbols that you want ("be, do, have").However, the mechanics of the process are never clearly explained.

For example, how do you go about starting from "being"...when your current self is not what you wished that it was?Well...the official Satvatove dogma is that you "just do" or "you choose to"...or they will mutter something about electrons jumping from one orbital to another...or whatever else gets slathered on it...as a cover for the mental gymnastics that actually go on underneath.Not to get too philosophical...but even "starting from being" is itself a form of "doing".Really...if you actually take the time to carefully consider the doctrine...it is not "be, do, have" at all...but it is instead a sort of "do, be, have"...which begins with "internal doing".In my experience, when Satvatove participants and leaders try (or pretend) to begin with "be"...they are in fact "doing". They are creating a false self, much like The Narrator (Edward Norton) in Fight Club creates Tyler Durden. This false self is similar to what the Hare Krishna cult calls "ahankara".To put it slightly differently, Satvatove's true-believers are engaging in self-deception. They are creating a mask.

And they then proceed live their life from that place...to live life from behind that Satvatove-created mask. Ironically enough...living from behind the mask is the very habit and practice that Satvatove pretends to want to free you from!One participant in a group awareness training put it thus: "In other words if I look good, I am good. . .

I wanted to fit the image. . . I drew this picture around me--a life of total image!"That's often how this be-do-have doctrine plays out in practice.It is little wonder that Satvatove participants get confused.

The ideas and the presentation themselves are confusing, and the more confused people are the more they work at understanding.

The more they work at understanding, the higher is their evaluation apprehension. The higher their evaluation apprehension, the more they blame themselves, and therefore the less they critically evaluate the content of the proposed idea.

Anonymous
to The Narrator #1543189

Some writers on the topic of LGATs describe Lifespring as an EST knockoff. Or as being at least influenced by EST.

Scientology is often mentioned, in turn, as an influence on Erhard and on the principles behind EST. The first post on this website critical of Satvatove describes it as "primarily merging the discredited LifeSpring work with Hare Krishna/ISKCON cult teachings". All of this got me thinking. There seems to be a sort of "family tree", going back from Satvatove to Lifespring, then from Lifespring to EST, and finally from EST back to Scientology.

Does the Satvatove concept of "be do have" also come from Scientology?

To my surprise, I found the following line posted on the Ex Scientologist Message Board: "The whole idea Hubbard had about Be, Do, & Have has bothered me for years. I accepted it as a fact early on but over the last decade of my Scientology life I came to regard it as seriously flawed."

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